Pleasure, argues Socrates, is identical with the good; anything that is painful is evil. This entails that it is impossible to live pleasurably while committing evil actions. Socrates acknowledges that this is counter-intuitive; most people believe that it is only too easy to be swayed by pleasure into behaving badly. But Socrates argues that many people are unable properly to measure what will bring them most pleasure, and instead often forgo future pleasures for immediate, but less pleasurable, gratification. Wrong actions are caused by ignorance, not by a conflict between ethical duty and the desire for pleasure. What is needed is an art or science (techne) of measuring and comparing pleasures.